I say all of this because I recently stumbled across the GTT7 forums. Now let me say that clearly the PTC folks take GTT very seriously, and well, I'd never last 5 minutes there. They want me to source song lyrics I quote? Doc Silver's DQ'ed after my first promo, because honestly, I didn't think I was trying to sneak "Only Happy When It Rains" past anyone as being an original Mike Stanton thought. To be totally honest to me it's not E-Fedding, it's writing a series of short stories, the wrestling content varies from 'trivial' to 'non existent' in the promos, the mythos of some of the characters would make the writers of "Lost" recoil in horror. This is some pretty dense stuff.
E-Fedding to me is two guys talking smack. That's about it, you might build the characters in skits and segments, but in the end, it's about the battle between two sides, you build them up, you fight. Someone wins, someone loses, and their story arc is defined through their careers, what happens in the ring effects them outside it, and so on and so forth. These GTT promos are self contained worlds, the opponent doesn't exist, the wrestling is at absolute best, an afterthought.
Now just cause I don't care for this stuff in respect to E-Fedding, I did like the stories, I liked the writing and respect the people that would take that much time to craft those stories and those ideas. I thought everything I read was well written and for the genres that they were going for, I thought they did a good job.
The guy who writes "Violence Jack" posted a note about how he felt that his third place finish proved to him that he wasn't ready to be published, and take a shot at making a career out of being a creative writer. To which I have to say to him, seriously dude, do you think Stephenie Meyer or Dan Brown could win GTT? Are you kidding me? Hacks far less talented than the people who busted their asses to make that finals have had major, major success as authors, I mean honestly, you're basing your writing skills on a Varga judged contest?! The day I let the mind that belched forth Biff Busey and his Saved By The Bell minions upon NFW have any power over me is the day I quit breathing.
My dream in life would be to get all the GTT people to join some forum I started up that had some random, 20,000 word long 'terms of agreement' that everyone just skims through and clicks 'accept' on, so that in doing so, all the stuff they wrote was legally mine, so I could publish 5 or 6 books and be hailed as a author with 'boundless imagination for new stories' who 'speaks with many different voices in each of his works' because seriously, ya'll are talented, and you need to do something with that talent, something more then slaving away hoping against hope you end up with a higher score than the other maniac who's just as devoted to his story as you are to yours.
Seriously, try to get this stuff published, try to get your names out there, do not spend however many countless hours it was you spent writing these things only to at the end have 4 guys judge you wanting or worthy.
If anybody over at PTC is really that concerned about getting published, they'd spend less time writing 400+ pages for GTT and devote more of it to non-EW related fiction writing. No offense to anybody in the community, but if E-Wrestling is the only creative writing they've ever done, then what the fuck would they know? EW is an entirely different animal altogether, and does not paint an accurate picture of one's storytelling ability. The hobby is very insulated, and often feedback and sycophancy is one in the same. When it comes to the actual writing, virtually all of us are completely undisciplined as we adhere to community standards as opposed to developing good writing mechanics. In other words, EW has a style unto itself that doesn't necessarily lend itself to successful creative writing outside the hobby.
ReplyDeleteWhen was the last time you wrote a rough draft for an RP? How many times did you edit it: once? Maybe twice? Who gives you feedback? Peers? Friends? Has a professional editor ever looked at your work? What about a Professor of Literature? Have any of your RPs been submitted to a journal, or a publishing house? Think about what you're writing, how you're writing it, who you're writing for, and the ends you're writing to. Notice how none of it matches up with answers you would get from a writer outside our hobby.
There are so many publications out there, both online and off; a million and one avenues through which you can pursue short story, novella, or poetry writing. You can get feedback from people who've actually been published, or from people who have spent years trying. Communities exist beyond ours where people can impart their success or their mistakes, from which you can learn. If you're serious about your writing, why the FUCK would you resign yourself to getting feedback from a handful of judges in GTT? What in God's name would they know about getting published? The only thing they can tell you, is how to succeed in GTT or EW. And really, that's all they need to do, because we're a separate hobby.
I'm not shitting on EW; it's a great hobby, I love it. But if the wrestling portion of it no longer interests you, don't give me that bullshit line about "well, I'm still into creative writing, and enjoy the competition." If that's the case, show some testicular fortitude and go join one of the thousand creative writing communities, and compete with people who are actually trying to get published. As an aspiring writer, what's more important to you: winning GTT, or winning a short story/poetry/novella contest? If you said "GTT" then please, do us all a favor and never submit your work to a real publication, ever.
I partake in this hobby because it's fun, and because it's a nice simulation of the wrestling business. I like to write, I like wrestling, and I enjoy the concept of show booking. Everything we do is based on the mechanics of backstage wrestling booking, and how to get over in wrestling. Once the hobby loses that, it's worthless, and you're just wasting your time. Call it something else, or go try your hand at getting published. Shit or get off the pot.
Man, I'd love to know who said that shit about not getting published because he didn't win GTT, so I can smack him in the fucking mouth. Sometimes I forget how mentally disturbed the people in this hobby are. That's probably the other reason why I enjoy it...I always wanted to be part of the circus.
::returns to writing FNV's main event::
RPs for a wrestling e-fed are supposed to be promos or skits that air to entertain the audience and/or hype up a match.
ReplyDeleteI'm all for character having depth and back story developed over time, but from what I read, those people are so clearly ashamed of wrestling, they are over compensating and trying to be something that wrestling is not.
Plus, some of the writers were blatantly ripping off stories from comic books in the last six months, that it is even hard to debate.
I happened upon this as a result of Varga saying some stuff about FWers taking shots at PTC for being elitist. Now to start off, I was one of the judges for the finals of GTT7, and for a few rounds, I was one of those guys who was writing a dump truck load of prose to beat others. Lost to the eventual winner. It sort of sucks. And as staunchly as I like the PTC community, there are things that have been said by you and those that commented that I whole heartedly agree with.
ReplyDeleteTo be frank, PTC is a mindset shift from what I came to understand as e-wrestling when I started in mail leagues and all that when the industry had a boom in the late 90's. Which isn't to say that one set is preferable or completely correct; that is up to those that wish to participate. PTC has been all about the concept of writing stories, transforming (or mutating, in the eyes of some) what used to be trash talk to being more about one's lordship over storytelling and writing. FW is what it is. PTC is what it is. I don't get the FW mindset of trash talk, and I have tried over the years. But I just chalk that up to interest level. There is also a debate underneath the surface of whether to continue doing things the old fashion way, of producing lengthy cards, and instead focusing on the roleplaying aspect. To become, as WBFIII or you might put it, a creative writing community.
PTC has e-Wrestling as a gathering point, but to be quite honest, the elements that make it considered (by outsiders) to be e-Wrestling are not as strong. My love affair for professional wrestling has died multiple times over the last few years, and is pretty much on life support now. I'm never going to get back into it like I was, mostly because the industry has not taken its next evolutionary step, and the whole 'grown men kicking each others ass' thing is done better in boxing and in MMA. I think a lot of people would say the same in PTC. I know a few people would say the same in FW as well.
So why not spread out if wrestling isn't what satiates us? Why not try and go out and get published? Part of it is comfort zone; people in the community believe they have a place, that there is a hierarchy to compete against, and that doing so provides enough stimulation as to continue on. Another part is not understanding the publishing market; I don't think a lot of people in the PTC community have attempted to get published because they don't know what kind of publications are out there, or what they want to write for them. And another part is hobby; just as it is for WBFIII, for you, and for Paul Miller, the writing is done as an outlet, not because they feel they want to turn their writing into their life's ambition, but just because they like to write every now and again. There are plenty who will say the 'p' word and have it be empty. Others like writing what they write and have friends they've known for nearly a decade that they like to correspond with.
I'm 25. I have a degree in literature. It does me a world of good, especially in the economy as it stands now. WBFIII asks what someone who isn't published can say about becoming published? That's a strictly asinine statement. The manner in which the market operates has no finite way, no set of instructions tucked away for only the devote to find. Dan Brown and Stephenie Meyer write piss and are millionaires (and in Meyer's case, a jaded millionaire bent on writing vampire fanfiction to satiate some misplaced romanticism). Cormac McCarthy doesn't wholly subscribe to the rules of the english language in his writing. This isn't engineering. It isn't programming. But from where I sit, what we do is try and figure out our abilities, challenge ourselves, and do it in a place we've been in for years. I was in those college classrooms with 'creative writing majors', and I have been in those writing circles that try and figure out how to get better. It was redundant and I earned nothing from it. In PTC? I can name five people who I could correspond with about writing and would learn from. That's why I do it. That's why others do it. I don't begrudge anyone doing what they do for fun. Maybe this is enlightening, maybe this is laughable, and maybe this doesn't make sense. There are truths that are stated in the comments and in the initial post, however, and I don't want this to be construed as someone from PTC coming over here to talk a bunch of mess about how you guys do your thing in FW.
ReplyDeleteAnd on a lighter note, on the Varga judging thing? You're preaching to the choir. He might be a decent guy (I don't know him, so I don't pass judgment on that), but for the purposes of what that final means to the PTC community, I find it to be unacceptable. I said something about what can a non-published author can say about writing? They can say a lot. But the caveat is that if the voice does not have a track record or your respect, then it means nothing. Those people might like James, but they aren't going to respect his ability to tell them they won or lost something based upon his track record.
Also, sorry for this coming as two posts.
I never said an unpublished writer had nothing to teach, but was referring to whoever it was that claimed his loss in GTT7 was proof he's not ready to published. My comment was "What in God's name would [PTC judges] know about getting published?" That's not to say an unpublished writer can't be a good muse; they certainly can. But this guy was relating his position in the GTT to his ability to get published, and I just don't see how the two have anything to do with each other. The GTT judges are evaluating RP based on different standards than what a publishing house or online magazine might. The hobby is an insular, separate thing altogether from the publishing world.
ReplyDeleteLook, I don't begrudge anyone doing what they enjoy. If writing 40 pages of roleplay in prose is your thing, knock yourself out. But when I hear that people do this as a tuneup to getting published, it makes me laugh...and pry my eyes out with hot nails. Writing PTC roleplay won't help you get published any more than writing Sith/Jedi roleplays helps the dudes on the Star Wars fanfic websites (this is a real thing, swear to God). Roleplaying games is to creative writing what checkers is to chess: slightly similar, but much different. If you want practice for getting published, go write poetry, novellas, short stories, full novel manuscripts, whatever. Submit them to online publications, there are about a million out there. Enter contests, submit your work to an editor, whatever it takes. At the very least, you'll get feedback from people who write actual stories, and not roleplay bullshit. Think about how much material you guys write over at PTC, and how much more it would benefit your aspirations for publication if you channeled it to more legitimate forms of creative writing. Half of PTC might write better prose than Dan Brown, but the reason his drivel gets published is because he creates characters and story layers that keep people's attention (even if he did rip the Da Vinci Code from 'Holy Blood Holy Grail'). It's about storytelling, not wordsmith masturbation.
I don't mean to come off as a know-it-all, and by no means am I a source of authority on the matter. The extent of my success in creative writing was winning a short story contest back in college, plus I was the reigning King of the poetry slam. I worked HARD to beat those campus lesbians and their rhythmic stanzas full of rape, child abuse, and taboo love.
...yeah. I've never been published, nor is it a major goal of mine. One of these days I'll get off my lazy ass and try my hand, but I've got other stuff going on, and am content getting my writing fix on FWC. Make no mistake though, if getting published was my goal, I probably wouldn't be RPing as much. For all I know, I'd fail miserably, but my energy would be put into short story writing and poetry, not 30 page wrestling results. If somebody on FWC told me they write cards as practice for their future career in TV script writing, I'd slap them too.
As for Varga, FUCK him. I didn't even mention him once in my reply, but now I'm going to since he felt it necessary to reference me. This guy single handedly killed GTT7's credibility. I hear he voted completely polar opposite from everybody else, and therefore skewed the results. That is fucking PRICELESS. I guess when he's not writing strip club bouncer kills the mafia while masturbating roleplays in my league, he's out there on PTC making a real difference.
very well-written piece, but allow me to kinda add my own reasoning here:
ReplyDeletei'm fairly confident i will never be published, but writing has always been an escape for me. i definitely prefer the "behind the scenes" style of roleplay because there's only so much you can do when your in-character is a retard who claims to be from outer space. i've always had a fascination with portraying a professional wrestler, too...and e-wrestling allows me the outlet to do both.
GTT7 is a pure roleplay tournament, but you cannot discount the feds within it: we are as much or more so concerned with what happens "on-camera" as well.
Well if you're limited by your character being a retard from outer space...I'd start a new character.
ReplyDeleteHey man, I'm more than fine RPing my own gaggle of crazy outlandish characters. If someone enjoys doing whatever it is they do on PTC, that's great. I'm just laughing at the people who do it because they think it prepares them for their future publishing.
ReplyDelete