Having read Jon Katz's post on Billy's blog, and having already replied to it, I read it again and figured I needed to tackle the issue on my own blog, since I tend to have the view that roleplay is good and important in leagues, and it doesn't feel like Katz does.
His first point is that if a league is small then only 2-3 people dominate. I think that would happen anyhow if a league is small, and why wouldn't a small fed have 2-3 dominating characters and the rest are left to fend for themselves? I mean what gives the guys who aren't doing lots of Rp and working hard to advance their characters the right to be in the main event and hold the big title?
His other side of the issue is that if you got to much talent then you can't establish a dominating champion...Who says you can't? Sean Stevens is a dominating champion in my eyes, I'd say he's been well established...Beyond him I'd think Marcus Westscott has been put into a good position as the #1 contender, and I feel like The First, even with him being my own character, has been pretty well established as a solid face. Anthology always get raves from people after every card, I think EPW's whole upper-midcard teir has been well cemented.
I'm not saying I think EPW is 100% Rp based...I think angles and storylines outside Rp factor into matches, I think they have to in every league, if you just judge every match based on Rp then you lack any ability to build storylines or angles that lead to payoffs, there has to be some storyline arc that you're using as a justification for getting from point A to point B.
As for the '150 pound woman' and '75 pound midget' comments, I mean, shots at Lindsay Troy and Duchess are always good fun for the whole family, but honestly, who's Rp'ing these characters on FW.com currently? This is a strawman arguement against roleplaying. I'm a belt whore of the highest order and if somebody told me that The First was to small to be world champion because they never really bought Jeff Hardy as being a legit main eventer...Then odds are I'd work out a different gimmick for that league, because I myself want to win World Titles, and I'm not going to have my character hold me back from that. Now maybe the guy who Rp's the 75 pound midget doesn't want a World Title and would rather do all kinds of zany shit in the mid-card, to each their own.
The thing about this comment is, you would be upfront with the handler that you're never putting the World Title on that character because they don't fit your mold as a champion, and that's perfect with me, handlers and fed-heads should have open lines of communication where they express their opinons about characters and what they think they should be doing and where they are going with the character.
Rp has to matter because otherwise you are encouraging people to be lazy, you're fostering this mindset that it's OK to not do a bunch of Rp's because 'we're all adults now, we have jobs, families, lives' etc, when if people do give a damn about a league, we get 20+ posts in a tag title main event on EPW. I know that Siegel and I are nuts, but Garth stumbled off the street and in his first match put in his work to hang with everyone, and Jamar didn't slack either. It was the most fun I'd had in ages in a thread.
It was like the scene in "The Crow" where the main villian, the never named Top Dollar, declares he's done with Devil's Night because it's boring and cliche, and when finally asked if he doesn't want anyone to set a fire he says what he wants is a REALLY BIG FIRE, so that the Gods will notice us again...
It was to me, a stark contrast to the EPW World Title match at Wrestleverse. I know Straw only did one Rp because he was working out an angle for Rocko to lose first, and I know Holzerman had one foot out the door of E-Fedding at the time, and Jamar tends to Rp best when pushed by his opponents (see the tag thread and the thread for First/Stevens)...But that thread kind of hurt me, because Brunk had thought about putting The First in that match for a while before deciding against it, and then to see that lackluster level of Rp...It just killed me. People tend to poo-poo E-Fedding and give the whole 'It's just a game' or 'it's a silly hobby' mentality to things, but honestly, we do spend time at this, and we have goals to achieve in leagues, and when your goal is to be EPW Champion and you see a title match where there is merely 1 post from each guy and they call it a day...It's just like "AHHHHHHHH!!!!"
Basically I think Rp should matter a lot, because it shows your level of committment and caring to your league you're in, and if you put in work, it should be rewarded at some point. Angles and Storylines have to count also, because without a story to tell the Rp is just meaningless, but the Rp should effect who the stories are told about.
And as for TEAM...TEAM is to me a kind of 'one-off' event. Like a friendly between two nations in Soccer. It is it's own seperate thing and pretty much divorced from the other leagues, the bitching and yelling and crys of 'bullshit' about TEAM are based almost totally off the fact that we have no idea what the standards for judging Rp are, because we don't know who the judges are. That's about it. I think if Adam just handled all the matches or the judging panel was public it would be a lot better.
Now I'm gonna go do something productive with my time, such as farm herbs on my blood elf rogue.
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I like everything you said here Mike. The only thing I disagree with were the arguments against TEAM. Almost all the time, the judges are displayed at the bottom of the show and its usually people like ChrisNova, IntegerChris, Holz, Lindz, Shinder, Dave and Katz. Anyone who has a problem with the way they judge rps is out in left field, imo. There will always be issues, particularly with the TiT, because so many people participate. And there will also be a bad judge here and there that may sway a match that should've gone the other way, but overall the system is pretty damn close to perfect when you consider the diversity of handlers that participate.
ReplyDeleteOne more thing, otherwise I think your spot on with the talk about getting what you put in.
ReplyDeleteI just want the judges to be public and their standards for judging matches to be out in the open so when a result that's questionable (Or an outright robbery) happens, people can ask them to defend their vote. I accept that the judging staff is normally a pool of highly respected Rp'ers in the community, but not knowing who's judging what and one person's likes is another person's dislikes is what leads to issues.
ReplyDeleteI'm a huge mark for discussion pertaining to "What makes a quality RP?" In this respect, I'd love for judges to make a habit of exposing their picks and reasoning behind them publicly for discussion. I'd be living in a dreamworld if I thought this was actually going to happen, but it would be nice. I'll volunteer to judge the next round, and will make my vote(s) public on my blog. Anyone is free to bitch me out for it, and we'll have a discussion about our differences like civilized human fuckin' beings, man! LOL. Judges shouldn't be required to go to this extent, but it would be great if they did. Making any process more transparent is usually a good thing in my eyes.
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